Re: ZoomFloppy - formatting a disk in a 2031 disk drive

From: Mia Magnusson <mia_at_plea.se>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 14:25:00 +0200
Message-ID: <20180511142500.00007e51@plea.se>
Den Thu, 10 May 2018 18:24:39 -0500 skrev Jim Brain <brain@jbrain.com>:
> On 5/10/2018 1:45 PM, Mia Magnusson wrote:
> >
> > I were under the impression that both versions were generally
> > available and at different costs due to a real ZoomFloppy needing a
> > rather large pcb and a microcontroller with enoguh I/O pins.
> ZF was designed the way it was to offer the most connector options.
> Of course, that was 8 years ago, and I think the world has
> centralized around the DB15, so the others need not be continued.
> But, at this point, lots of people have designed cases, etc., so
> there is a small ecosystem grown up around the board.

Yes, I see what you mean. But does this eco system really stretch that
far outside the US?

> > Here in Sweden a guy makes a XUM1541 version which is about 1.5" *
> > 1.5" (if I get the imperial measurements correct), about the least
> > size you can have for a 24-pin and a 14-pin DIL footprint, a 6-pin
> > DIN socket and a 10 pin DIL socket (for some kind of fast loader
> > cable to a 1541). The 24-pin DIL footprint houses a socket with
> > what I think is an arduino nano (or mini or whatever they are
> > called) clone, containing the micro USB socket.
> That was Nate's original idea, so it has merit (at the time, the 
> at90usbkey device was almost as much as the ZF cost, and I felt costs 
> could be managed better by designing the dev board into the main PCB.
> 
> I think having options (to Steve's point) is valid, but it does
> bother me that none of the other designers hang out and help with
> service or participate in the community, as far as I can see.

Yeah, that is really shitty of them. I see two more or less valid
reasons for them to not hang out, either if they are super shy or if
they are super introvert. Also there might be a language barrier. In
general people in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands are
really good at english even though it's not their native language. But
for many other parts of the world english is harder, especially among
older people (who grew up with Commodore stuff).

> > This isn't any critique of the ZoomFloppy, I'm just suprised that
> > all those C64/VIC20/C128/Plus/4/C16 people buy a product with an
> > IEEE port which they probably will never use.
> Some people buy it without the IEEE port, even :-)
> 
> Not sure where you live, but at least in the US, we buy houses and
> cars with features we won't use, because we want to patronize a
> particular company, or we feel one manufacturer offers a better
> product in general, regardless of features, or they will be around in
> 6 months or a year to service/repair it if I need it.  Surely you do
> similar or the same?  Why must it be different for COmmodore
> equipment?  Why must we only buy the minimum set of features we
> expect to use?

Yes, we do that but mostly only with local companies. Stuff like a new
TV or a new washing machine are manufactured by such big companies that
even the whole swedish market doesen't affect them that much. You
generally support your local store or local handyman.

It's really uncommon to buy a new house here, those are mostly bought
second hand or they buy a lot and get a building permit and get
involved somehow themself. What people do buy though is condoes but
them the investment is so large that it's mostly the merit of what they
buy that affects the decision. It's also a matter of what a bank will
lend you money for.

It took me some thinking to realize that I actually know one person who
has bought a new car, and that is a small Spanish Seat (the Spanish
version of the Italian small car Fiat). In general it's mostly companies
that buy new car, either for practical uses like a plumber needs a car
which can hold all tools and stuff, or as a kind of add-on to the
salary for upper class management people. Then they trickle down on the
second hand market but then they are mostly evaluated for their own
merits, not the companies merits.

Maybe it was a bit different back in the days when we actually had car
manufacturers who were owned locally. But in the aftermath of the
economic crisis in the 90's Ford bought Volvo, our biggest car
manufacturer, and General motors bought Saab, the other of our two car
manufacturers. Then they owned them until the economic crisis in the
end of the 00's, and after that they went to chineese owners. At least
Volvo still has full production though, but even someone with a rather
good salary in the tech business would have to save up money a few
years to be able to buy a new car, and that money usually ends up in
paying of the debt of their condo/house, or saving to not have to loan
as much when they buy a condo/house in the future.

> Cost is not to be ignored, for that low cost unit could be a godsend
> for the young kid with few funds and the C64 and 1541 his uncle
> bought him at the thrift store who wants to put games on disks. But,
> surely cost is not the only consideration in this space...

Well, the guy here in Sweden that makes small XUM1541s charge about the
equilient of $15-$20 (can't remember the exact amount and then there is
the conversion SEK-dollar that isn't fixed) and you either can pick up
the stuff at some nearby retro computer/gamle meetup or have it mailed
where the shipping cost is about $2 or similar. Your ZoomFloppy is good
value for $35 but then there is overseas shipping which in general are
prohibitive from the US to Sweden, and usually also rather expensive
from the UK to Sweden. I'm not sure what it would be if I did buy at
your shop but for example I were talking with someone wanting to sell a
bunch of VIC 20 cartridges. I think it was about 6-12 carts. The price
for the carts were like $50 which is really good, but the shipping
would be an additional $75 and then it became too expensive.

I had a look at a US surplus company which has some nice deals on C16
keyboards and VIC 20 motherboards, like $2 each for the keyboards and
$4 for motherboards if you buy at least 5 each. But the shipping for
like 5 each would be a three digit amount in dollars, one of the two
listed companies wanted like $500 (!!!) but I realize that that is
expensive even by US standards.

In general it seems like shipping to Sweden is only reasonable from the
nearby contries, and since some of them are rather small or don't have
that much vintage computer people, it's kind of leaves us to only buy
new made stuff for vintage computers from Germany and Poland, and used
commodore stuff can usually only reasonably be bought locally in Sweden
and from Germany.


My conclusion is that it would be really really nice if the US vintage
computer companies and their counterparts in central mainland Europe
would team up to manufacture and sell each others products. Or maybe
ship them to each other with the slowest low cost shipping. (I've read
from your web shop that there is some kind of special deal in getting
blank PCB's so the rom-eprom adaptors might be feasable to buy from you
anyways, but most other stuff gets expensive when shipping is included).


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Received on 2018-05-11 15:00:07

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